Mongolia: Nomadic Culture, Urban Adventures, and Women's Retreats with Breanna Wilson

Embark on an enchanting journey across the sweeping steppes and into the heart of nomadic culture with our guest, Breanna Wilson. As a travel expert with an intimate connection to Mongolia, she weaves a rich tapestry of stories from her life among the nomads, the rush of traversing rugged terrains on a Ural motorcycle, and the embrace of Mongolian hospitality that's as vast as the landscape itself. Breanna's vivid narrative transcends the spoken word, delving into the powerful realm of non-verbal communication that binds the souls of travelers and locals alike.

Imagine a place where the traditions of the past blend seamlessly with modern innovation—solar panels perched atop gers and the warmth of a central stove making a cozy refuge from the Mongolian chill. Breanna not only shares the intricacies of a nomadic lifestyle but also invites us into a world where women gather in the serene province of Selang, connecting over shared experiences and the hearty, soul-nourishing flavors of Mongolian cuisine. The spirit of community and respect for the land and its people is palpable as she recounts the transformative retreats she hosts, bridging cultures and creating memories to last a lifetime.

For those with a wanderlust sparked and curiosity piqued, Breanna offers a treasure trove of practical advice for planning your own Mongolian escapade. From navigating the urban pulse of Ulaanbaatar with its burgeoning tech scene to embarking on cost-effective yet enriching travel itineraries, she paints a vivid picture of a land that's both ancient and ever-evolving. Safety tips for solo travelers, the latest on connectivity in the remotest corners, and a peek into cultural festivities and adventure sports—this episode is a compass that points to the endless possibilities awaiting in the majestic realm of Mongolia.

Map of Mongolia

You can find Breanna's links here: https://linktr.ee/breannajwilson

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

Hi, welcome to our podcast. We're Next Travel with Kristen and Carol. I am Kristen and I am Carol, and we're two long-term friends with a passion for travel and adventure. Each episode, we interview people around the globe to help us decide where to go next. So today we have Brianna Wilson, an American who has spent a lot of time in Mongolia and will tell us all about it. Thank you for joining us today. Yeah, thank you for having me, and so you're in Mongolia right now.

Breanna: 0:46

I am in Ulaanbaatar right now, so I'm in the capital.

Speaker 1: 0:49

And so what brought you to Mongolia? What do you do? I see here it says Mongolia travel expert, that you're specific to Mongolia. How long have you been there?

Breanna: 1:00

I have been coming here since 2018. I have been coming here since 2018, and I came just like every other tourist. I came to do a horseback trip up to the Tatton tribe, which is the tribe that rides reindeer. As soon as I got here, I kind of realized Mongolia was a totally different beast and place, and I made an excuse to come back the next year in 2019 and ride a motorcycle, a Ural. It's a motorcycle with a sidecar. I did that with another friend and we drove halfway across the country and just went out meeting nomadic families and had just this insane experience. And then I've basically been coming back every summer ever since, and now I'm here in winter. So this is a whole different adventure for me as well, because, yeah, the average is like negative 30 degrees Celsius.

Speaker 1: 1:49

So very cold. I figured it was very cold.

Breanna: 1:52

Yeah, it's cold but it's. I just came back from the countryside, I did a trip up north and it's just so beautiful because everything's in this blanket of white and it's just very quiet. And it is much more difficult to travel in winter, obviously, because we don't really have a lot of paved roads once you kind of go off the main highways. So you have to be very comfortable in a good four by four to get anywhere in the winter and so you're staying there right now, like you're living there yeah, so I'm in my apartment right now.

Breanna: 2:22

um, I live in ulumbatar and, yeah, I have a car here. So I try to go out to the countryside as much as possible and I take tourists out as well. So I organize sort of experiences with locals and we go visit nomadic families and we do all the stuff that I fell in love with here. So I just try to share that and give people that same experience.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Wow, and what's the elevation there? It's so cold, is it in the mountains? It looks like it was.

Breanna: 2:47

Yeah, we're about 4,500 feet, maybe a little bit less, above sea level.

Speaker 1: 2:52

So some snow, but not a lot of snow. So it kind of looked it's like you're like Northern Montana, canada, almost Exactly, exactly. Okay, when did you move there? It sounds like you're there now like full time.

Breanna: 3:06

Yeah, so when I came back in 2019, I rented an apartment with the same friend that we did the motorcycle trip with. It was like three months, four months. We basically stayed for the summer, because the summer is when the weather is the most agreeable, it's when all the tourists come, it's when the city and the countryside is just stunning and everything's lively. There's so much going on. So I came back in 2019 and started living here part-time and then in 2020, we were going to launch the motorcycle adventure that we did as a trip with guests, but then obviously, the pandemic happened and that didn't come to fruition. So I didn't make it back in 2020, but I made it back in 2021. It was still a weird time for tourists. So I just kind of came back and moved into this apartment that I'm in now and just got settled into life here and, yeah, spent that summer here, and then the last summer was sort of the first real tourist season that we had back in the country. So last year I had a lot of guests and tours and I'm also a journalist, so I do a lot of travel writing.

Breanna: 4:09

I've been doing a lot of pieces on Mongolia lately, just because now that's kind of what I've become synonymous with and you know I am able to speak on a deeper level about the culture and what's happening here versus, you know, most travel writers. This is how it works you go on an assignment for a week or two in a country and you have to write an article and you're an expert and that's great and that's fantastic and people write amazing pieces about their experiences. But, yeah, I'm able to offer a little bit different insight and I travel around solo a lot within the country. I drive my own car, I go camping and wild and, yeah, overlanding and driving off road, so it gives me a different perspective. I go a bit deeper than you know some other people can go. So, yeah, that's what I try to share with the world as well.

Speaker 1: 4:53

That's pretty bold. So where were you from? In the United States?

Breanna: 4:56

I grew up in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Oh, okay, pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I'm assuming, because that's Pittsburgh right here in California. Oh, that's right. Yeah, there is that Pittsburgh?

Breanna: 5:04

Yeah, the one on the East Coast.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Language-wise. How is that in terms of being over there?

Breanna: 5:11

It's interesting.

Speaker 1: 5:13

Is it Chinese or is it something that?

Breanna: 5:15

No, they speak Mongolian, so the local language is Mongolian. It's not like you're in a European city where everybody else speaks English. It's quite the opposite. So I'm working very, very, very hard to learn Mongolian, but it is a very hard language. So I know enough to get by and I'm dedicating a lot of time to it. But, yeah, you kind of need to know the basics just to get by here.

Speaker 1: 5:40

So what are some of the basics? What does it sound like?

Breanna: 5:43

So basically, when you walk into a family care, you say, and they say, like that's just your formal greeting for everybody you know everywhere every time, and then you can ask their name and yeah, then you just kind of get the conversation going from there. So my, my language skills are kind of like a child. I'm good with the kids, but when it comes to like deeper conversations with the adults, I kind of stumble a little bit. But the beautiful thing about this country is that body language and smiling and just like you just sort of learn how to communicate without really communicating. I don't know how to explain it, but it just works very nicely here.

Breanna: 6:22

Yeah, I mean, we just kind of you kind of look at each other and you look at the horse or you look at the gear or the tee and you're like, oh, yeah, and even if you're speaking English and they're speaking Mongolian, you somehow understand each other. It's very interesting. So, yeah, that's how I get by. A lot is I'm like, okay, here's my basic skills. And then I'm like, okay, nevermind, like let me just point or laugh or like you know, pick it up in there. Yeah, they kind of just do the same with you and you get by.

Speaker 1: 6:47

So do you have a guide or someone to help you the first time you went?

Breanna: 6:51

Yeah, so most of the time when I travel I have a translator or a guide. It kind of, you know, makes that process a bit smoother, because there are a lot of little details about things here, like when you walk into a yurt we call them gears here. When you walk into a gear, like, you're supposed to go to the left and guests sit in another particular spot and the family sits in another spot, and when you grab a bowl of tea from your host, you always grab with your right hand or two hands. You don't point your feet directly at the host. So there's a lot of little things. There's a lot of little things that of course, you know. When they see that you're a foreigner, they don't really scold you or anything, but it's good to know these basic little things. So there's not a lot of information out there. So most people come having no idea what to expect, which is amazing because that's, I think, the way that Mongolia is best experienced.

Breanna: 7:40

But yeah if they're going to do it on their own, I want to have them at least a little bit prepared, or at least give people some information.

Speaker 1: 7:47

And so what are the feet pointing directly at the person? Why is that a bad thing? What does that mean?

Breanna: 7:52

It's just very rude and you never show the soles of your feet to a host. It just is, yeah, super rude.

Speaker 1: 8:00

You don't plop your feet up on the couch.

Breanna: 8:03

Nope, nope, nope, none of that, none of that, yeah. So I'm always like very conscious of how I'm sitting and like at some point you just get relaxed and you go back at your old habits, and then you're like oh my gosh. Oh, I'm so sorry. Like it's all right, I'm like it's okay.

Speaker 1: 8:18

Who cares here? What keeps you in Mongolia? So that keeps you in Mongolia, like why, why there and why live there full time and not back here in the U? S?

Breanna: 8:27

it's those same things I just explained. I mean, the nomadic lifestyle is just endlessly fascinating to me. The fact that they are basically self-sufficient and sustainable and they move their family, you know, three to four times a year they follow their animals around the countryside.

Speaker 1: 8:45

They okay family three to four times a year. They follow their animals around the countryside. Okay, so some of our listeners might think nomad. We think like digital nomad. You're talking about old school nomad, where you're moving based on where the food is, where the water is, that kind of thing. Yep, yep. So these are the indigenous people.

Breanna: 9:01

Yes, these are the Mongolians who have been living this way for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. I mean, they still live in the felt tents that you know they did back in the days of Chinggatan. Do they have electricity? A lot of them now have solar panels, so they do have lights, or they have a car battery that they will hook up light to, so they have lights within the gare and they use the solar to, like, charge their phones, because now they all have cell phones. So there is electricity. There's no running water, so usually there's a big like blue plastic bucket that they get water from, either a well or the stream or a spring that's nearby, and then how do they manage that when it's minus 30 degrees Just?

Speaker 1: 9:41

have to be a running stream that doesn't freeze up, I guess 30 degrees.

Breanna: 9:44

Does it have to be a running stream that doesn't freeze up? I guess yeah, most of the rivers and streams will freeze. So they have an ice pick and they just have one spot that they normally use and then they'll use the ice pick, or if they're, it depends on where they are. Sometimes there is like a spring or something that is constantly running. So if that's the case, that's what they use, but they figure it out, they get by. Most of them go now to the same sort of areas each season.

Breanna: 10:06

So one of the families I just visited last week they have like actually a little log cabin, but we went with him to get water. Basically, you walk 500 meters and then there's one spot it looks like a hiking stick but it's very thick, and then on the end is this huge metal chisel almost, and then he digs a new hole. Every time he needs water, which is usually every day or every other day, they go and get water and yeah, and then he uses that pick, digs a new hole, gets the water to come up, and then he sits, fills up his bucket, takes them back.

Speaker 1: 10:38

When you're visiting the nomadic, the people, then you're not in the city Ulaanbaatar, right, because that's more modern it looks like right, yeah, okay, got it.

Breanna: 10:47

But how do they get heat? So there's a stove in the center of the gare. So when you look at a gare, the top is this like almost sort of open oculus. They used to use it to tell time, um, but wow. But now they stick the chimney pipe up through that and then you know, basically, know, basically, when you're driving through the countryside you see if someone's home, because you see if there's smoke coming out of their chimney. So there's a. It depends on where they live, but it's either wood fired or it's fired by dry dung or whatever they have. They burn in it and that's how they eat Wow.

Speaker 1: 11:22

It's like going back in time. Huh, I'm looking at the pictures. There's like desert and then there's green right.

Breanna: 11:28

Yeah, we have a bit of everything. So in the south we have the Gobi Desert, which is insanely harsh and you know endless sand and dry, flat landscape, and then in the north we have these really crazy mountains.

Speaker 1: 11:51

And in the west we also have, yeah, have, yeah, the alta mountains and beautiful just like very tall mountains down to the very green lush valleys. And what was the desert called? Is it sound like a familiar name, goby desert? Okay, and it's got camels there.

Breanna: 11:56

It looks like yep, so we have back drain camels, which are the two humped camels, uh-huh. And yeah, I spend a lot of time with some camel herding families. That's one of the experiences that I offer is they go live with one of the families that I work with a lot and, yeah, we learn how to like saddle a camel and then we go on rides in the dunes, take the camels to get water. Yeah, learn about what they eat dude, is this like?

Speaker 1: 12:18

do you just change lives and people how they perceive life after they go there for the first time? I mean, obviously did for you.

Breanna: 12:25

Yeah, it reminds me of my first time. Every time I see someone like go like this isn't a tourist trap, this isn't just for show, like this is actually how they live every day, it makes me very happy to show people that people still survive this way, they're happy. I mean, mongolian deal with a lot, and yet they smile at you, they're happy. They just, you know, get on with life. There's no complaining, there's no like quitting, giving up. It's like they just go on.

Speaker 1: 12:55

Or any of them work or their work is just surviving every day.

Breanna: 12:59

It depends on the family and it depends on where they are. I mean, there are little towns all across the country, so some people will work in the zoo, the camel herding family, the mom that we go to she's a teacher, so in the winter she teaches at the local school. I mean there's still jobs in town, so a lot of them will either pump gas or work at the little store or one of the restaurants. But yeah, some families, they're strictly herding families and that's it. It just depends on where they are, the situation and how big the family is Like. Yeah, if the kids can take care of the animals, I can go work, or vice versa. So yeah, it depends.

Speaker 1: 13:32

Do they have high rises or buildings or anything? Because I'm just looking at your Instagram, I'm not looking at Mongolia in general.

Breanna: 13:40

Yeah, so Ulaanbaatar, where I live, is a fairly modern city. It's still a small city by a lot of standards. It's not like going to Seoul or Tokyo or anything that you would kind of expect in Asia. Mongolia is a post-Soviet country, so we still have that architecture when you look at our opera house and the drama theater. So it's still very present in that sense when you look at the architecture. But, yeah, we have a lot of new buildings going up.

Breanna: 14:09

A lot of people are moving to the city just because, yeah, life as a nomad is very hard and we had a really tough winter this year and some people lost all of their animals, which is kind of what happened back in the 90s when Mongolia became an independent country. They also had a really bad Zud, which is this really tough winter that I'm talking about, and a lot of families lost their herds. So they just said, okay, let's just move to the city. So the city really increased in population in the 90s because of that. So, yeah, so a lot of people do move to the city just to try to find a different life, have different experiences, or maybe they're getting older and they just, you know, want a little easier life, and so the city is expanding.

Breanna: 14:47

We have a lot of high rises, you know, going up, a lot of building going on. The biggest complaint in the city is usually the traffic, because the city was not built for this many people and the roads are very skinny, but somehow we make it work. Can you just like I said, mongolians just kind of get on with life, but you know, you figure said Mongolians just kind of get on with life, but you know, you figured out, people still walk the streets here, even at negative 30, negative 35. And they're still walking to work or bicycling to work or however they have to get there.

Breanna: 15:14

They get there and yeah, I just really appreciate how they just get on with it. There's no like crying in the corner, there's no like taking a day off, it's just. It is what it is and let's move on with it.

Speaker 1: 15:27

So what's a typical day look like in Mongolia?

Breanna: 15:30

For me every day is different. But I mean, in this city I have a very like normal city life. You know, I'll go get a coffee in the morning at the local coffee shop. I'll, you know, meet friends for lunch or brunch. No-transcript.

Speaker 1: 16:13

So when does that transition, when does like summer kick in?

Breanna: 16:16

So usually about April it starts to become spring and then by May it starts to become like everybody can be outside. Some days you have really warm, like spring summer days, and then it goes back to like snowing. So, it's kind of like you know that in-between period, but by June everything is green and nice. And yeah, june is usually about when it starts. That's usually the first of summer.

Speaker 1: 16:40

Sounds very like Minnesota, almost the climate, it's very cold and then everyone just goes crazy in the summer like we could be outside yeah exactly Everyone's wearing shorts and I'm still like in a cashmere jacket at night like I'm freezing. So what do you do for work then? Is your travel, writing and tours your full-time work these days?

Breanna: 17:02

Yeah, so in the winter I mostly work on my travel writing. I'm a freelance travel writer. I, you know I write for publications all around the world and so in the winter I do a lot more writing, I do a lot more of that sort of journalist, you know, sort of hat, if that's how you'd like to say it. Because yeah, the tours here only really we kick off the first tour at the end of May and then I'll run tours through the first of October, but then I have the rest of that time sort of to myself. So between October and usually about the end of April, beginning of May, I don't have any tours at the moment. But that's actually why I came back is to sort of scout some winter experiences for next year, so that I can extend the season. And you know it's tough to run a business when you can only do it for six months at a time and you know, only hire guides and teams for those months.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Well you do have, if you want to talk about your women's retreat coming up in.

Breanna: 17:58

August, yeah, so this year is the first year I'm launching a women's retreat and then we will basically go up to this province called Selang and we will stay in one place and I will curate a bunch of experiences basically the same thing we would experience if we went to any other part of the countryside. We'll meet nomadic families. We'll spend time with them. We'll have Mongolian cuisine for dinner. Families We'll spend time with them. We'll have Mongolian cuisine for dinner. We'll spend our afternoons either hiking or kayaking and just experiencing the beautiful countryside, because that area is really green and we'll be right on a river. So it's just a beautiful sort of place. It's actually one of my favorite places to go by myself, and just sort of disconnect.

Breanna: 18:37

So the province is called Tuleng. It's north of Ulaanbaatar, so we'll take the train from Ulaanbaatar and we'll take it up to Tulang. That's part of the experience. The train is an experience in itself. It's a very local sort of thing. So we'll do that. That's how we'll get up there and then, yeah, everybody stays in a yurt and we just kind of live like nomads for the week and I bring some special friends up to help us sort of get you know all of the experiences that I think are important for people to have here. You know, learn about different things like the calligraphy and you know, do different experiences around the local culture here and yeah, and then just meet a group of really cool women. I mean, people who come to Mongolia are amazing. They definitely are different sort of travelers. It's not easy to travel here. There aren't always roads to places.

Breanna: 19:29

We don't always have beautiful rest stops to go to the bathroom in, so it attracts a person with a very open and adventurous spirit. So I'm hoping that this I know that this group will be exactly that, and so it's a really cool chance to get to meet other travelers that are very like-minded and similar, but to also get a real sense for Mongolia and what's going on here, and but also spend time disconnecting and just sort of being in the landscape and surrounded by good vibes.

Speaker 1: 19:58

And how do? Where do you fly into?

Breanna: 19:59

You will fly into Ulaanbaatar. This is the only real international airport, so everybody flies through here.

Speaker 1: 20:07

So coming from the US. How would you get there? Do you have to like fly through Tokyo or Singapore?

Breanna: 20:13

You can fly through either Seoul. So if you're coming from the West Coast, flying Korean air through Seoul is usually the route I recommend. If you're coming from the East Coast, it would be the Turkish Airlines and Istanbul. You could also fly through Frankfurt or Tokyo, but Istanbul and Seoul are usually the layover cities I recommend.

Speaker 1: 20:35

Okay. Is that going from both sides of the world around, or is it just both going?

Breanna: 20:41

yeah, both sides around. So if you go, if you would fly through korea on the way here and fly through istanbul on the way home, you would technically go around the world exactly well, there's that, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:56

yeah, that's kind of neat, neat. What does? When you say Mongolian cuisine, what does that look like? I think Mongolian beef that's the only thing, right, yes.

Breanna: 21:07

Well, the funny thing about that, and like Mongolian barbecue, is that is not Mongolian. It was actually created by a guy in Taiwan who wanted this very exotic dish in one of his restaurants. So most people come and they say that and I'm like actually in reality, the diet here is very meat and dairy heavy.

Breanna: 21:29

I do have conversations with everyone that comes with me on my trip just about their dietary restrictions and things that they should know, because, yeah, the diet here is really meat and dairy heavy. It's what the nomadic families have, it's their resources, it's how they live, and part of the experience is that I want people to eat with them and I want us to eat together and that's how you bond and we cook together. I usually have one of the moms show us how to make the local dishes. Like boots are basically our meat dumplings, so anyone who's familiar with like xiaolongbao, it's basically similar to that. And then we have a noodle dish called suvin.

Breanna: 22:06

Husher is another very popular dish. It's kind of like an empanada. It's basically, you know, flattened meat in a fried pastry. Those are like the big three that most tourists become familiar with. And then, yeah, as I mentioned, every time you walk into a gear you're offered milk tea and it's like a salty milk tea.

Breanna: 22:24

Yeah, so that's like that to me is like the most comforting thing. So, as soon as you walk into any gear, that's the first thing you get offered, and even if you don't drink dairy or you know, maybe you don't really want to drink it, you always have to accept it and you can just sit with it in your hand. You don't even really need to drink it, but you always accept it. Just if the host is offering you something I mean, that's their resource that came straight from the cow or the goat that are directly outside of the yurt. Oh wow, that is like as fresh as it gets. You always accept it and you know you show your gratitude and that, like I said, that goes a long way here, as long as you just show your gratitude and you're thankful for the experience.

Speaker 1: 23:06

you know you don't really need communication to get by, but yeah, so do you think the nomadic people like appreciate that people are coming to learn? Maybe it helps support them a little bit? Or they're like, ah, keep these tourists out of here. No, they appreciate it.

Breanna: 23:16

I mean, like I said, as long as the tourist is respectful and, you know, appreciates things and they're not just showing up to kind of Mongolian hospitality is famous because they are so warm and they are so welcoming. I mean I've been in situations where I've been driving and you know it's getting later in the day and I'm asking for directions and they say, oh, come in and have tea. And then before you know it they're like just sleep here, like it's okay.

Breanna: 23:42

You can just stay here with us and you know, the next morning when you go to leave, you're like you have to have that conversation. That's usually awkward and you're like, okay, well, how much do I owe you? And usually they're just like it's okay, like don't worry about it. That's not really the precedent they want to set. I don't want people just coming here thinking like you can just stay with any family and not pay them and that's fine. It's nice when it happens, yeah, sure, but that's still like they've opened their home and they're so kind to you. So maybe, if I don't pay them in money, I leave them like flour or oil or whatever solar lights I'm not maybe using at that time. So I try to leave other stuff and pay them in other ways of not maybe using at that time. So I try to leave other stuff and pay them in other ways.

Speaker 1: 24:22

Oh wow, that is hospitality. Is it safe? Yeah, the hospitality is okay, and the food, and like, did you get, like you know, tummy aches? Or you know, like, is there monozuma-ish kind of issues, or how is that experience?

Breanna: 24:36

Yeah, the diet can affect your stomach, just because sometimes it's really either greasy or oily. That's usually what affects me after a few days of eating it. And yeah, because it is a lot of meat and it depends on the season, and I do try to bring vegetables in my car, but then I can be like, oh, can we make like a you know coleslaw salad or you know something on the side, because yeah, it is just meat and fried bread, so that can kind of wear on you if you're not used to it. Like I don't eat meat like that every day. So when I go to the countryside, you know to live like that for five, six, seven days, your stomach kind of goes like no, no, no, where's that like oatmeal that we normally eat in the morning? Or where's that steak salad that we're used to eating?

Breanna: 25:18

so it does sort of, you know it can wear on people. Um, I try to bring, you know, snacks and supplements, and you know, some nights we'll just say, okay, tonight we're gonna make pasta or tonight we'll make. Sometimes you just want something comforting, like mac and cheese, um, so I try to bring just like little things so we can break it up. You know lots of ramen and other things like fresh eggs and, like I said, vegetables, if maybe that's just what people want that day. It's very simple. It's not, you know, overly spiced, it's not overly complicated. It's basically kind of boiled or fried meat and then you just kind of pick at it with your hands and everybody eats together out of one big, usually like tray. Usually all the meat is dumped on the tray if they're making like a big meal for everybody.

Speaker 1: 26:03

And what kind of vegetables Do they do? Vegetables with their meal, like we do? Or it sounds like if it's there and grown, great. If not, and if they're a nomad, no, yeah, so.

Breanna: 26:14

I mean sometimes they have like the jars of you know pickled vegetables, which is always nice. Potatoes are pretty common, carrots, onions that's usually what you find in a in a nomadic home, if they have you know vegetables that they picked up either from the zoom or if someone brought them for them. But as far as like lettuce goes, it's not something you would find usually in a nomadic home. Not really any fruits either. So yeah, I usually bring fruit we import. So when you're in the city you can find all of this stuff. I mean I go to the store and I buy bananas and oranges and apples and, you know, lettuce and everything I would buy back in the states I'd buy here in the capital. That's not an issue at all.

Breanna: 26:56

But yeah, once you get to the countryside the selection of fruits in the local stores is usually not as fresh because it's not supplied as often. But yeah, sometimes it's okay. It just depends on where you are. But yeah, you won't really find fruit in a nomadic family's home. It's not what they prefer to eat. Like I said, they're very self-sufficient. In the summer they eat a lot of the dairy, so they'll make dried curds and cheeses and then just kind of live off of that, and then in the winter they eat more meat.

Speaker 1: 27:24

What's their health like and what do they tend to live until? Typically, what's their lifespan?

Breanna: 27:31

Well, you'll always notice when you go to the countryside that the nomadic families have the best teeth. So they always have very straight, straight, very white teeth because they eat really hard meat and really hard cheeses. Just growing up from a young age, so their teeth are amazing. I'm always like, oh my gosh, like let's trade. Um, as they get older, there are some issues with like cholesterol and stuff like that. I'm not sure what the lifespan is, but I've. I've been in the countryside and grand grands like 80, 90 and still getting water, cooking food, telling everybody what to do. So, yeah, I mean it is amazing when you run into the older generations and start to have chats with them about how life has changed and what they've seen. And yeah, I really like when that happens, it's one of my favorite experiences.

Speaker 1: 28:20

I just Googled it and it says 72.14 years. Oh, I wonder about the US. Let's check the United States actually.

Breanna: 28:28

Oh yeah, that would be interesting to know.

Speaker 1: 28:31

United States, 77.28 years oh okay, a little longer. I'm like what's the best one? Okay, so what's the cost of living where you are?

Breanna: 28:50

So the cost of living is definitely less than in the States and probably even less than in some European cities, but I don't think that Mongolia is as cheap as people always assume. Like the coffee would be like $2, $2.50. You can get lunch for less than $10, dinner for probably about $20. Okay, so it's not like Thailand.

Breanna: 29:15

It's not like Thailand. It's not yeah, it's not a place that people come just because it's cheap. That's definitely not the case. I mean, we import a lot of things and, you know, getting a drink is still like $10. It's not like yeah, it's not a place that you come just because it's cheap. I think people come here thinking that it is and then they go oh, it's not really as cheap as we thought.

Speaker 1: 29:35

So you talked about typical meals, and is that?

Breanna: 29:51

just for the nomadic family? What about, like, if someone were to go to the cities? Or is it the same type of foods we have, you know, spanish restaurants, japanese, korean food. Korean food's really big here in Hot Pot. That's really big in the city. It's like any other city. We have a ton of restaurants, a ton of coffee shops. So really, whatever you like to eat, you can find here. Maybe you won't find, you know, like 20 Italian restaurants that are, like you know, the best Italian you'll find, but you'll find a handful and they're good. It's surprising to some people how cool some of these places are and that you know these places exist, especially when they are just thinking, yeah, okay, we're just gonna eat meat and dairy in the countryside for like a week but, then when I start to show them around Ulaanbaatar, they're like wow, it's actually a really modern, like nice city that really anybody can live in and yeah, that's why I live here.

Breanna: 30:39

That's why I like it, because it is it's like a. You can find everything that kind of you know makes you happy here.

Speaker 1: 30:45

Do you find there's any expat community, or would you rather you know you want to meet people from around the world?

Breanna: 30:51

Yeah, I mean there is an expat community, that we have a US embassy here. We have, you know, a lot of NGOs, a lot of nonprofits that come and do have you know, a lot of NGOs, a lot of non-profits that come and do you know really great work here. So there is an expat community. It's not huge, it's not like you know, it's not like you're walking into a restaurant and it's just full of expats and that's kind of it. There are a couple spots where you know a lot of expats do hang out, but most of the time around the city you don't really see any foreigners, especially in the winter, when it's not the tourist season. It's different. In the summer, when it is the tourist season, you know you'll see a lot more foreigners walking around, but they're not locals, they're travelers. So that's a bit different.

Breanna: 31:28

But yeah, it's not a huge community. I wouldn't say I'm active in it. I wouldn't say that's like the majority of my friends are expats. It's quite the opposite. The majority of my friends are morgulian, um, but yeah, but it's easy to kind of meet people and make friends here and yeah, once you do sort of find these spots where people like expect to hang out, once you meet one you kind of meet all of them.

Breanna: 31:48

So it's easy to navigate. It's not like it's hostile or unfriendly or anything like that. It's easy to get by here, it's nice, it's. You know, people are mostly curious and they're like who, who are you? What are you doing here? Tell us everything.

Speaker 1: 32:01

So if someone were to go to Ulaanbaatar, how would you get around? Do they have just like the Uber or the Grab kind of system, or do you rent a car If?

Breanna: 32:11

you're just staying in the city. I mean, if you're staying in the city center, you can basically walk to everything. Otherwise, you can grab a taxi off the street, or we have basically our version of Uber, which is UB cab, so you can call it cab. That way, if you're going to the countryside, you would either need to rent a car or you can take a bus to certain places, depending on where you're going, or you can hire a driver, which is a fairly reasonable price. It's usually about $60 to $ dollars to hire a driver in a car for the day no, and then you're.

Breanna: 32:43

You're responsible for the driver's meals and accommodation and buying the gas. But yeah, it's. It's much cheaper than renting a car actually, um, which is at least double that cost sometimes.

Speaker 1: 32:54

Yeah, and then hopefully they know how to get around better than you would.

Breanna: 32:58

Yeah, exactly, and then the other problem is there's no Wi-Fi, sort of in a lot of these remote places, and then you're like back there going where am I going? What's happening? And then if you get a flat tire or something goes wrong, you know, you're kind of out there.

Speaker 1: 33:11

So unless you're really comfortable, and unless that's your thing like I always tell people just to get a driver and to have them take them around, yeah, so I was definitely I was going to ask wi-fi internet, like what that looks like, and I'm assuming, if you're in the country there, that that's not happening well, the latest development which I'm I'm like it's so excited and also sort of afraid.

Breanna: 33:32

Uh, starlink, just gonna ask darling, yeah, so so previously I mean you would get a sim card in the city. It works in the city, you know just fine. And then once you sort of get to the outskirts and you start going deeper into the countryside, service is hit or miss. It's getting better. I've noticed it's now in a lot of places where it hasn't been in the years past that I've been here.

Breanna: 33:55

But yeah, basically I still can't always post to social media actually when I'm out in the countryside. So even though I have service, it's not very strong and it's not reliable. Starlink just launched on the 1st of March, so I'm assuming that's going to change a lot of things this summer. It's going to be interesting get it as well, just for safety reasons and to have it. You know, if I'm taking people out if there's no cell phone service, I have a GPS like in-range and SOS service. But it's always good to be as prepared as possible here because you never know what's going to happen. I want to get one just to be extra safe and extra prepared, especially when I'm out there by myself.

Speaker 1: 34:36

And what do people do for fun? And are they active as well? And you know, hiking or whatever. I was curious what they do.

Breanna: 34:50

Yeah, I mean in the city it's very lively, especially at night. You'll see everybody out, either you know, at the bars sitting outside or doing you know anything walking around, all that fun stuff. H hiking is becoming more popular here. I'm trying to think what everyone's doing now. Yeah, going hiking in the mountains behind the city is, you know, something a lot of people do?

Speaker 1: 35:09

wondering if they also like mountain bike or hike, or are there mountain?

Breanna: 35:12

biking yeah, mountain biking starting to become bigger, it's starting to become a thing. So these things were never really there, were always tiny communities, and you know a few people like really doing it. It's starting to become more mainstream. We also just had an ice climbing festival, so we had a bunch of ice climbers come in. So also, rock climbing is starting to become more popular. Uh, yoga is becoming more of a thing. Yeah, it's everybody's active here. They like being outside, they like moving. It's you know, it's what they. They do to to have an excuse to go outside, to enjoy the nature and to find new ways to do that. That's what everybody's looking for, I think what are so your friends?

Speaker 1: 35:54

like? What kind of jobs do they do? Is it just typical, like sure, there's accountants and dentists and things like that, but I don't know if there's. Is it just typical, like sure, there's accountants and dentists and things like that, but I don't know if there's, is it? Is it like? What are you?

Breanna: 36:07

is there industry there?

Breanna: 36:08

that's popular yeah we have a really cool like startup industry, like lots of little tech companies, people launching apps. I actually have an air purifier that's created by this girl who is basically taking the felt that's being unused in the countryside and she's using that to make filters for air purifiers. Wow, yeah, so that's cool. So that's what I use. But my other friends are chefs or they work in TV production or some of them.

Breanna: 36:41

My one friend is creating a music festival for this summer called Zippy Top and it's like a city festival and it will have a big lineup of Mongolian artists and an art display and a cosplay costume sort of element. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things going on here. Yeah, I just met actually this really cool guy yesterday who makes custom hats tomb sort of element. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things going on here. Yeah, I just met actually this really cool guy yesterday who makes custom hats and they're like like Stetson style, like nice felt hat, like really cool, like probably the last thing you would expect to find here. So his, his company name is monkey hat M U N K Y hat, but so that was cool. So I'm going to have him make me a custom hat soon.

Breanna: 37:25

But yeah, there's cool stuff going on here. It's not in your face and it's not like everywhere. You know cool new little like bars. Or you know people designing things that I didn't they can make like custom. You know cashmere jackets or three piece suits. Or you know you can have a pair of boots made and they're great, like leather boots, so you can find everything here. It's not like I've never been like tired of discovering this stuff.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Find everything here. It's not like I've never been like tired of discovering this stuff, or. And then do they have any typical like holidays or time off, or what does that look like for the?

Breanna: 38:08

two biggest holidays are okay. So in the summer the next one coming up will be notum. Notum is our national festival that revolves around the three manly sports, so that's wrestling, archery and horse racing. Opening ceremonies for Nodham is always on July 11th and then the country kind of shuts down for two weeks and everybody goes to the countryside and they watch the horse races, the local Nodhams, the wrestling tournaments. It's a really good time.

Breanna: 38:39

It's a tough time to be in the city because everybody's in the countryside so a lot of things are closed. Um, but if you're in the countryside, I mean there's people everywhere, there's stuff going on all the time. Um, yeah, it's, it's a fun time to be in the country. For sure, I actually do a trip around it where we do a horse trek and then at the end of the horse trek is sort of the start of not on.

Breanna: 39:00

So then we see the local festivals in the countryside, the wrestling tournaments, and last year we came, we were horseback riding and we came across the smallest Nodom in Mongolia and we became the honored guests.

Breanna: 39:18

So they put us at the head table. They were serving us A air rag, which is the fermented mare's milk that we drink during that time of year, um, they were, yeah, giving us the trays of meat like I was talking about, and yeah, we kind of became the, the guests of honor at it, and then, uh, so that was quite a special experience for the guests that I was with, um, but yeah, that's, I mean, that's common here. That's just like how it goes sometimes, um, so not as one big festival and one big, um important time to be here. And then the second is, uh, saginsar, which is our lunar new year, so that just passed. So it's kind of like the chinese new year, it's just our version of it. And yeah, the country shuts down for three days, as that happens, and the holiday itself is five days, but yeah, and do they celebrate Christmas as well?

Breanna: 40:07

Not per se. I mean you just see like Christmas trees around town, but it's not the same.

Speaker 1: 40:12

So there's the kids and Christmas presents under on December 25th.

Breanna: 40:18

No, it's not really like that. They do exchange presents on New Year's Eve or New it's no, it's not really like that. They do exchange presents on new year. Eat on new year's eve or new year's day um, they'll give presents, but yeah. And then you get gifts on sagansar, on lunar new year, um, but it's not. It's not like christmas, where kids wake up and there's 50 presents under the tree and yeah, it's not like that no more old school.

Speaker 1: 40:39

yeah well, we are getting close to our end of our hour. I have our rapid fire questions, which you're going to be surprised, since I didn't send it to you ahead of time. Sorry, but, kristen, was there anything else that you wanted to go before I do those? If someone wanted to stay there for an extended time or something, how much should they budget to stay there?

Breanna: 41:02

And I know it could vary, but just curious. I mean I would add a minimum $2,000 a month if they were to stay here. So, that's Is a good budget Food boarding and that's living a very comfortable lifestyle. You can do it for much less. It just depends on your travel style and what you're comfortable with. That would be what I mean, based on how I live're comfortable with. That would be what I mean based on how I live right now. That would be a good budget uh-huh that's no, that's great, reasonable.

Speaker 1: 41:27

Yeah, it's like they want to go out to eat and have drinks every night, I guess yeah, yeah, you could probably buy on that cool all right. So what is uh, one of the popular religion or what is the? It is buddhism. And do they recognize it? Because I heard in Japan no one really says they're Buddhist, it's just more like just in fora.

Breanna: 41:49

If you ask them what they believe in, they'll say Buddhism. There's still a hint of shamanism and Tengorism, but Buddhism is probably what the majority I think it's more than 50% say that they're Buddhist. What did you have for breakfast?

Speaker 1: 42:00

Yeah, Buddhism is probably what the majority I think it's more than 50% say that they're Buddhist. Yeah, oh, nice, okay. And what did you have for breakfast? What's a typical breakfast for you there?

Breanna: 42:07

Oh, for me, just coffee. I like endless, endless amounts of coffee.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Very French. Coffee and a cigarette, maybe not a cigarette. Do people smoke there Vaping?

Breanna: 42:20

is a very popular thing with the? Uh younger kids. Uh, smoking is fairly big but you can't really smoke inside, which is nice but I wouldn't say it's like a culture where you're like gosh, everybody smokes. But yeah, I still see it okay.

Speaker 1: 42:35

And what about the music? Is there some unique? Is there a different nomad music versus the city music?

Breanna: 42:41

everybody listens to mongole music um. The traditional music is throat singing um, but on the radio they play throat singing, so mongole throat singing is like their traditional style of singing um. I'm sure people know the band, the who. They are a rock band that is now famous around the world and but not the who from the uk.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Right, a different who. The who is uh hu okay, my husband's a huge who fan.

Breanna: 43:12

Yeah, yeah so the who is they kind of have taken the traditional throat singing that we that you'll find here um, and then they've turned it into rock music and it's they're playing like huge concerts around the world and they're okay, I'm gonna have to youtube that see what this singing is.

Speaker 1: 43:31

Sounds very unique. I won't ask you to sing us anything. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. All right, we always like to ask where's the closest place to serve. I don't think it's anywhere. To surf. Oh boy, you're going to have to go to Asia somewhere.

Breanna: 43:47

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 43:51

And what's the money, what's it called and how does it work? Exchange when you get there, do they get credit cards?

Breanna: 43:55

Yeah, so the currency here is Mongolian Tugrik. We don't have coins, it's only paper cash. You can pull out cash from the ATM or you can exchange. If you exchange, you need to have crisp new bills. They don't accept any old bills or any bills that are torn or ripped or have even the slightest little bend in the corner. Oh really, you have to be very particular about the bills you bring. Little bend in the corner. Oh really you have to be very particular about the bills you bring. Yeah and yeah, you can exchange a lot of different places around the city, yeah, and then I always tell people have like cash is king here.

Breanna: 44:31

Mastercard doesn't always work, credit cards don't always work. It's getting more common and the systems are getting better. I say this every year and then all of a sudden, like things have started to kind of, even my street lady selling fruit now accept credit cards. Oh wow, okay, so things are very rapidly modernizing here. But, yeah, I always tell people to have cash, because you just never know and you just want to be prepared, because if you don't have cash, that's addictive.

Speaker 1: 44:56

Okay, got it, and so where can people find you Hear about? Like your blog URL, your Instagram? Where else are you?

Breanna: 45:06

My Instagram is at Brianna J Wilson B-R-E-A-N-N-A-J Wilson.

Speaker 1: 45:19

And my Mongolia travel website is meanwhileinmongoliacom Meanwhileinmongoliacom, and we'll put these in the show notes Mongoliacom. Meanwhile in mongoliacom, and we'll put these in the show notes mongoliacom. How much is it for someone to sign up with you and want to, um, uh, do one of your trips? What are the costs?

Breanna: 45:29

uh, yeah, so the women's retreat is currently the uh lowest priced trip that I offer. That starts at 2900 us dollars okay um, most of my trips are usually around for one week yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:43

And does that, I'm assuming, doesn't include a flight right. Someone have to get.

Breanna: 45:49

It doesn't include flights, but it includes everything once you're sort of here during those trip dates. So accommodation, meals, guides me, all activities that I mentioned in the itineraries that I write out, so that's basically all inclusive once you're here.

Speaker 1: 46:04

Nice, and then do you pick up, like from the airport. Do they have to get?

Breanna: 46:08

Yeah, I pick up from the airport, I take care of you from start to finish so that I make sure you're taken care of, because it is very confusing, it's not straightforward here. So, yeah, that's everything included, and then what's a ballpark fee for a flight coming from California.

Breanna: 46:24

The flight thing has been a constant battle. The lowest price I usually find is $1,500. It can be up to $2,000 for a round-trip flight. At the moment there are hacks to getting around it, like going to Tokyo and flying in that way. Or Korea has a budget airline called jeju air uh, j e j u, I think. And so if you can get to seoul, sometimes you can find cheaper flights if you kind of just piece it together a little bit. So maybe you go to seoul for a day or two, hang out, take that flight, you know, up here and then back there same sort of scenario.

Breanna: 46:57

But yeah, from the us usually about 1500 to 2000 US dollars.

Speaker 1: 47:02

And when people go to Mongolia, did they ever is? There is like oh yeah, a lot of people they go to China and then they hang out there and then they come to Mongolia and then they go to Thailand. Is there any kind of like normal tour, like more the digital nomad would do people that are traveling long term?

Breanna: 47:16

Yeah, I mean, if you have the time, you can always take the train from China and come in to Mongolia and slow travel through. I wouldn't say there's like a path that everybody takes. It's still, you know, people are still unsure about Mongolia in general, so it's not like we're part of a regular route of three places or four places. People are still trying to figure out things here, so that's also what I'm trying to make more accessible and give more information about. But, yeah, I hope people would. I mean, it's a great place to come and work for a week, two weeks. I have a digital nomad week where I have exactly that digital nomads coming in so that I can show them like, yeah, you can come work here and meet these cool people I just mentioned, do these cool things and find comfortable workplaces for a fairly reasonable price. Yeah, and then you can go on, yeah, like to Hong Kong or Seoul, or you can go over to Kazakhstan. A lot of people will then do that. They'll then go towards Central Asia.

Speaker 1: 48:13

Kazakhstan.

Breanna: 48:14

Uzbekistan, Tajikistan. That's the more common, I think, thing that people do.

Speaker 1: 48:18

And I was just thinking what Kristen was asking about. Like someone stayed there for a month. Do they have Airbnbs or can you rent places just?

Breanna: 48:25

for one month. Yeah yeah, airbnb is popular. Bookingcom you can find apartments.

Speaker 1: 48:32

Okay, and is it pretty safe to travel? If you're a female, safe to travel.

Breanna: 48:39

Yeah, it's like any city where you should be aware of like pickpockets. Don't leave your phone on a table and walk away, you know if you see really drunk people walk in the other direction. But as far as like feeling safe as a female, I've never felt unsafe. I mean I've never really been cat called or heckled. I've never, like had any instances on the street where I'm like, oh, that heckled. I've never, like had any instances on the street where I'm like, oh, that was weird or oh, that made me really uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 49:08

I mean, I've walked around the city at every hour of the day by myself and, yeah, I haven't had any issues, awesome, oh well, thank you so much, brianna. This is very eyeopening, no idea. So what's the dates for your August trip?

Breanna: 49:16

Oh, I think it's August 11th through 17th.

Speaker 1: 49:21

Just in case, just throwing it out, in case someone's listening and interested, and then if they went to meanwhileinmongoliacom to be able to access that trip, there's a tour section on the website and they'll find a women's retreat under that section.

Breanna: 49:39

I think it says best experience of Mongolia seven day trip.

Speaker 1: 49:42

I'm scrolling just to check it out and you've got one in May which sounds fun Camels, horses and cons. What's a con?

Breanna: 49:49

It's our word for king.

Speaker 1: 49:51

Oh okay, live the Mongolia nomadic families during the small tour group. And then June 2nd through 9th, digital nomad week, live and work in Umbatar. And then July, that's the Nadam Festival and horse trek small group tour. One spot left, that looks fun. July 5th through the 13th it says a two-day horse trek. So it's 5th through the 13th and then they go two days on a horse. Yes, exactly, I've run horses. I'm all up in that. That would be awesome. And then July 24th through the 29th you have a six-day mounted archery training camp. I saw a lot of horses in archery, which looked really good.

Breanna: 50:28

Yeah, that's a new trip I just launched this year. So one of my friends here she is this badass mounted archer. So they gallop at full speed and are shooting arrows at these targets and it's the most amazing thing to watch. So I've teamed up with her and we're going to do two weekends of camp.

Speaker 1: 50:47

Yeah, it looks like you've got 7th through the 12th and July 24th through the 29th and August. So, august 7th through the 12th and then July 24th to 29th, six-day mountain retreat training camp train like a mongol warrior and learn how to ride and shoot traditional mounted archery while galloping across the step terrain. And then the august 11th through the 17th, seven-day adventure trip for women only. That sounds really amazing riding horses, kayaking, so soaking up beautiful scenery Trip. Perfect for women looking to gain more confidence in the outdoors, which I think, yeah, when you're going to the Mongolia for the outdoors, you are really going outdoors, right? Yeah, yeah, we're doing it.

Breanna: 51:33

But the best way to do it is to just jump right in.

Speaker 1: 51:36

Oh heck yeah, I am all down for that. I definitely. I actually at that time I take Girl Scouts backpacking.

Breanna: 51:45

Amazing.

Speaker 1: 51:47

So but I am, yeah, I may have to switch one of those years. That looks really fun. Love to keep in touch and see about more of your trips and thank you so much for sharing about Mongolia. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. Have a great day. Good night, oh yeah. Have a great day, yeah.

Breanna: 52:07

All right, bye.

Speaker 1: 52:11

Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the podcast, can you please take a second and do a quick follow of the show and rate us in your podcast app, and if you have a minute, we would really appreciate a review. Following and rating is the best way to support us. If you're on Instagram, let's connect. We're at where next podcast. Thanks again, thank you.